What Renovations To Do & Avoid For Real Estate Investors
Welcome to the Wisdom Lifestyle Money Show. I'm your host Scott Dillingham. Today I've got Nick Messina with us from Team Goran, REMAX and then I've got Cas with us from Cas Design Studios. Welcome guys. Thank you.
Nick Messina:Thanks
Kass Dipasquale:for having us.
Nick Messina:Thanks for having us.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. No worries. So today we wanted to have a different perspective on real estate renovations, specifically focusing on real estate investors. A lot of investors buy properties that need renovations, or they they have a property and they wanna do renovations to them. And the thing is a a lot of challenges with investors is they lack the time.
Scott Dillingham:I find they're really busy, and they don't really wanna get their hands on with the renovations. But then a lot of times we find that they make some big mistakes, right, that you know, loses them some equity and potentially lowers their resale value. So this is why we wanted to have 2 experts on from different angles, but both can touch on the renovations. So here we are. So welcome guys.
Kass Dipasquale:Thank you.
Scott Dillingham:So let's talk about some of the worst things that an investor can do when they're renovating their home. I'll start with you, Nick. What do you find or what have you seen that was really ugly that lowered someone's value? Like, what did you see that investors should avoid at all costs? I find a lot
Nick Messina:of the time people tend to navigate towards what they think might be the best situation for their home. Things like painting to their liking, updating to an extent again to their liking, and when it becomes more unique, it's harder to sell. I think it's better to go modern, more generic to open up to the public and get as much traffic as possible. So I would say anything that really is a unique situation and anything custom to the client is probably not a great idea.
Scott Dillingham:Okay. No. I like that. And what do you think, Cass?
Kass Dipasquale:Honestly, I Nick nailed it because it's it's what I see is they're putting their emotion into it. It's what they like and what they want and what they're gonna gravitate towards, which is fine if you were keeping the home. But if you're renovating to sell and you're renovating to flip or invest or anything like that, you wanna keep it geared towards the masses.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah.
Kass Dipasquale:And, you know, I you know me at this point, Scott. I do like the unique Right? And and appeal to those wider audiences ultimately.
Scott Dillingham:Yep. Now so then that brings up another question. Right? Because a lot of people, I've heard that as well. Right?
Scott Dillingham:You wanna be neutral. Right? And then so you see all these beige homes. Right? That's so ugly in itself.
Scott Dillingham:Right? Just the Builder beige. Builder beige. Yeah. It's so ugly.
Scott Dillingham:So what you know, I like to hear from both of you, but what have you guys seen or what do you recommend your clients do to keep it neutral but but more lively than just beige everywhere?
Nick Messina:It might sound a little bit standard, but honestly, I tell my clients a nice fresh coat of white paint goes a long way. Yeah. It it is a little bit neutral. It is a little bit standard, but it does open up the possibilities for people to come in, and it helps them envision what they would wanna put and what they can see themselves being in that home and doing with it. Right?
Nick Messina:So Okay. A nice white fresh coat of paint definitely goes a long way. Nice.
Scott Dillingham:What do you think, Cass?
Kass Dipasquale:I mean, I virtually wanna say very similar things, and I think it depends what the goal is in the moment because a lot can be done with staging a home as well.
Scott Dillingham:Yep.
Kass Dipasquale:So, you know, when you keep the renovations and the bones of things as neutral and bright and airy as people say, then a little bit the better. But a lot can be done with just decorating with plants. So, like, I'm sure Nick knows, it's it's the game of depersonalizing and and taking away a lot of things, and so you still don't want it to feel cold. But I I like to decorate with plants, and and staging can go a long way. So
Nick Messina:Yeah. No. A 100%. I mean, you wanna definitely keep it, you know, staged, looking well, at the same time, like you said, depersonalized so that people can envision their family in the home. But at the same time, you wanna keep that balance of it looking good.
Nick Messina:Right?
Kass Dipasquale:Yeah. Yeah. Take time.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. Thanks. Now right now in life everything's so expensive and a lot of people wanna cut their costs. So how can we I know we've only really touched on painting, but how can we have an investor do some work, but really cut back on the cost of doing the work? Do you guys have some suggestions your clients or investors have done?
Kass Dipasquale:I'll take this one. So so I I got a couple of things in in this realm of things. So I just did, what did we call it? How to maximize your profits, your ROI, for investors. We did it in the investor hub that Lens City hosts.
Kass Dipasquale:We've got a whole online community. And part of when I was doing that event, what was coming up is the actual dollars and cents. So I wanna answer this question in 2 ways. Right? Sure.
Kass Dipasquale:There's there's a way from a material standpoint to, you know, get the cheaper. You can get LVP, luxury vinyl plank, as opposed to hardwood. You'll save, like, $5 a square foot. That's a hefty amount when you're talking investing. But then there's the the other way that I wanna take things.
Kass Dipasquale:And so this is a little bit of a plug, though,
Nick Messina:because
Kass Dipasquale:I was asked to do another event for short term rentals, and I'm I'm asked to do another event for short term rentals, and I'm actually gonna have some numbers. So there is an actual mathematical equation on what your current rent is, what your new rent would be, and taking into consideration all of the money that you've spent on the renovation as well. So that's to come. I don't have that answer right now, but Yeah. Fair enough.
Kass Dipasquale:Yeah. Something to keep in mind.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. And I gotta just say about the the final plank like we did it in the one office over there. I've done it in the basement of my rentals too. If there's ever water, it's pretty good. Like, you gotta take it out to dry under it because you don't want mold to grow under.
Scott Dillingham:Right. But beyond that, like, you can just relay it back down. You don't have to throw it out and redo it all. So
Kass Dipasquale:The product itself. Yeah.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. You just need extra because if you've cut along right? You've cut along the wall, let's say, and then when you put it back together, there's gonna be spots where you're like, I'm missing It's back on there. You can't get it. So you gotta have extra for that too.
Scott Dillingham:But but super cool product.
Nick Messina:Mhmm.
Scott Dillingham:So then what would you suggest? Let's turn this to a seller because you can both answer this.
Nick Messina:Okay.
Scott Dillingham:Well, let's say somebody's selling their home, and they wanna renovate. And I know a lot of times the best advice is don't do anything, like leave that up to the buyer. But let's say it needs it and you absolutely have to do something. What do you guys recommend as some key renovations that someone can do to maximize their the value of their home?
Nick Messina:So from a, real estate standpoint, point, I would say if we're talking about rooms specifically, I would say kitchen a 100%.
Scott Dillingham:K.
Nick Messina:I think kitchen is one of the major factors that clients look at when they enter a home. On average, you can you can honestly renovate your kitchen 10, 20, $30,000 Yeah. And you're looking at about a 70 5 to a 100 percent, return on that investment. Okay. So kitchen always, I would say, definitely a good idea to look into.
Nick Messina:Bathrooms, I mean, I guess it depends condition of the bathroom and how many you have in the home. I would say light fixtures, adding a vanity, making it look nicer. You're you're sitting at around a 70% return on your investment for the bathrooms, so I think of all the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the
Scott Dillingham:the the the the the
Nick Messina:the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the
Scott Dillingham:the
Kass Dipasquale:fine. These are reported REMAX numbers. Yeah. That's fine.
Nick Messina:These are reported REMAX numbers. We will
Kass Dipasquale:cite the sources, but you're right. And so what I can add to that is when it comes to the kitchen, you don't have to go ripping it out though. Yeah. Right? So, you know, 10, 20, 30, sometimes you can get upwards to 60, 70, 80
Nick Messina:Yeah.
Kass Dipasquale:Just touching a kitchen. And so you can repaint those cabinets. You can get them refaced. So if you are selling, there are ways to keep things keep your costs low
Scott Dillingham:Yeah.
Kass Dipasquale:Just to appeal to the masses like we were saying. When it comes to the bathrooms, my rule of thumb, so I'm curious what you think here, Nick, is if there's at least 2, then as long as you have one that's updated, pretty much top to bottom updated Mhmm. Then the other one you can get away with, like, the quicker fixes.
Nick Messina:Yeah. No. I I completely agree with that. I mean, as long as you have one really nice one where the family's like, you know what? We can use this one.
Nick Messina:And Yes. If push comes to shove, we'll go and use the other one, then, yeah, 100%.
Kass Dipasquale:Yeah. Okay. Cool. So I'm on the right track.
Scott Dillingham:That's cool. I even spoke to an appraiser one time, and I don't know if this is still the case. This is maybe 2, 3 years ago, but he said that if somebody does their backsplash, he'll usually add on $5 of of value to the home. And I don't know about you guys, but a backsplash doesn't cost $5.
Nick Messina:You know
Scott Dillingham:what I mean? No. But just the impact that it has on the overall look of a kitchen Mhmm. Is so drastic that an appraiser's willing to add $5.
Kass Dipasquale:Yeah.
Scott Dillingham:Now, again, that might have just been this appraisal. It could have been that specific property, but that's that's what he was suggesting, which is pretty cool.
Kass Dipasquale:Yeah. Good to know.
Scott Dillingham:Cool. So then, what would you guys say that that you would recommend for k. So I wanna do renovations. Let's say I've decided I'm gonna do my kitchen and bath. What would maybe the first steps be?
Scott Dillingham:And, Cass, this might be a better question for you, But, like, a lot of people just dive in, and I think that's where a lot of mistakes happen. So what would you say?
Nick Messina:I mean How
Scott Dillingham:can you help?
Kass Dipasquale:The e the easiest is just having the overall vision. Having the overall vision, having the inspiration, a way to communicate what you're thinking and what you're after to the people who are actually doing the work. Yep. And even if that's you and your significant other, k, you guys don't think the same. Yeah.
Kass Dipasquale:Okay? Men and women don't think the same. And so even if it's you guy you guys that are doing the work yourselves, you wanna keep as much money in your pocket as possible, just try to be on the same page and having visuals is important. So Canva is free, guys. That's how I do all my mood boards.
Kass Dipasquale:Pinterest is endless on the inspiration that you can find on Pinterest. So even just having reference photos is is the best. That's definitely your best bet is having the
Scott Dillingham:overall vision.
Kass Dipasquale:Yeah. And then putting together a spreadsheet for the actual numbers. Like, having an amount that you're willing to invest into the home and the property before you sell it. But then that's where I would bring in Nick and a real estate agent is, okay. Hey.
Kass Dipasquale:I'm thinking of doing these updates. This is what it's valued at right now. What is it valued at after these updates? Yep. And and that homework before you swing any hammers.
Scott Dillingham:Yep. The homework. No. I agree. And from the lender standpoint, right, because that's obviously who I represent.
Scott Dillingham:You can build these renovation costs into your mortgage, right? Obviously, if you're selling, that's a different story, but you can build all that in too, and a lot of investors don't realize that. So they end up out of pocket or it limits their growth because they could be using that money for another purchase. So, yeah, building all the renovations. Right?
Scott Dillingham:OPM, use other people's money, and then you can grow. Let's talk back to the ugly renovations. What are some of the ugliest renovations you guys have seen since we're here talking? Absolutely.
Nick Messina:We absolutely don't. But I wanna know
Kass Dipasquale:more because you're you're in more people's houses than I probably am. What are some big don'ts?
Nick Messina:I mean, definitely don't go with, really outstandish colors on the walls. Like, I've been through a house where the the walls were painted neon green and neon pink every other room. So I would say things like that don't do. Definitely stick with the neutral colors.
Scott Dillingham:Was that the video game house?
Nick Messina:Yeah. That was. As far as other ugly renovations, I I've seen I mean, I think layout is extremely important. I've gone through houses and you're you're thinking, like, wow. Like, this is a beautiful home, beautiful space.
Nick Messina:But the way that they laid it out to make more rooms and create, you know, extra space is just it's awful. Like, you you need to make sure you're doing you're allocating the spaces correctly to maximize not only the vision, but what you can do with that space. Right? Yeah. So putting up walls in spots where there shouldn't be, definitely not a good idea.
Nick Messina:Yeah.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. Makes sense. What did you say, Cass?
Kass Dipasquale:So, I mean, how can I answer this? Re repeat the question.
Nick Messina:Okay. Let me ask
Scott Dillingham:you a different way because you literally help clients design the renovations.
Nick Messina:Yes.
Scott Dillingham:So let's word it the other way without may maybe mentioning a client's name, but what was maybe a renovation that you had suggested something, and the client went on their own and did it their way
Kass Dipasquale:Okay.
Scott Dillingham:And it worked out really ugly?
Kass Dipasquale:So and I don't wanna say that it worked out ugly only because
Nick Messina:I was on the project, and I wouldn't I wouldn't let that happen.
Scott Dillingham:Okay. Fair enough.
Kass Dipasquale:But, I think the way that you portray what you want, which again comes down to visuals and a vision. I did have this one client. She was an absolute sweetheart. Love her to death. The way she had presented what she wanted wasn't what we ended up with.
Kass Dipasquale:And what what ended up happening is she just needed to see it and then to be like, yes. Mhmm. So what was my point here? You might have to edit this part out. That was ugly.
Nick Messina:What was ugly?
Kass Dipasquale:Wasn't ugly. Okay. Let me
Nick Messina:let me think of let me think of an ugly let me think
Kass Dipasquale:of an ugly. I I just go back
Nick Messina:to the lime green bathroom.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah.
Kass Dipasquale:So okay. I got a good one. So I always have to come at it okay. I got a good one.
Nick Messina:So I always have to come at it
Kass Dipasquale:from a a modern level of things, and I did have this one client, and she was an older woman. And it turned out great, but she want everything to be pink and, like, old lady pink.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. That's too much.
Kass Dipasquale:Right? But it was their space. So it was it was their home, and so I really am of the 2.
Scott Dillingham:Like a Barbie home.
Kass Dipasquale:Well, it wasn't it wasn't like that. It was like old lady pink. So it was right like a blush. Yeah. And I did my best, but I think in the end Did
Scott Dillingham:it smell like perfume everywhere?
Nick Messina:Yeah. Like the old original wartime home
Scott Dillingham:pink? Pink.
Kass Dipasquale:Yes. Right? Where it's, like, this baby pink, and I I struggled with the overall vision. But at the end of the day, she was happy. So so that's the difference between where most of my clients I am promoting.
Kass Dipasquale:Do it uniquely. Do it your own. But I also have that level of from an investor standpoint and from the seller standpoint,
Nick Messina:you don't at all wanna have any personality on it. Warmth? Yes.
Kass Dipasquale:K. But no
Nick Messina:a to this lime green bathroom. I have to. So there was
Kass Dipasquale:this house that was being sold, and the photographer basement bathroom,
Nick Messina:and it had a vessel sink on top with butcher block countertop, and the bathroom was lime green, and
Kass Dipasquale:then it had, like, some block, lofty, but then Mexican, block, lofty, but then Mexican ish with the pattern tiles, and then there like, this very old traditional vase in the corner. So mixing the styles are no. Yep. That's, I think, where the ugly comes
Scott Dillingham:into play.
Kass Dipasquale:Yeah. You're mixing too many styles or trying to do too much
Scott Dillingham:in one space. Yeah. I've seen some ugly houses too. I've seen so the 2 weirdest things for me was there was, one house, there was a toilet. I I guess you could say it was it kinda was like the living room maybe, but why would there just be a toilet like, red paint to make it look like blood was dripping down.
Scott Dillingham:Oh. It like, red paint to make it look like blood was dripping down. Oh. It was weird.
Kass Dipasquale:That's creepy.
Scott Dillingham:It was really weird. So I was like, I'm not buying this one. Even though it's pink, it's still the thought of it. Right? It's like
Kass Dipasquale:Well, because I think it poses the question of what else? What else am I gonna find in this home? Mhmm. What else could have been done? That's that's how I would be thinking about.
Scott Dillingham:And that's exactly the point of this. Right? You don't wanna do those renovations because even myself realizing that it could be just paint, it threw me off so much that I didn't want to buy the home, right, and that's what we're talking about here is not doing those things that Yeah. Are just so drastic that, you know, you push people away.
Nick Messina:I'll add another example to that actually. I, so I actually went through a beautiful house recently. Like you walk up to the front it was beautiful. Like I'm expecting beautiful staged inside everything. I walk in with my clients and there's, what do you call that, like dead trophy animals like everywhere.
Nick Messina:Like, all over the walls is, like, moose, wolves. And I'm I'm looking at my client. They're like, yeah. We're a little bit scared. And and I'm thinking, like, yeah.
Nick Messina:Like, for such a beautiful home and to have that displayed, like, you're you're cutting your traffic in half. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're gonna have a good amount of people come through there, and they're gonna think, like, oh, yeah. This isn't for me.
Nick Messina:Meanwhile, without all of that, you would be able to really see the potential of that home.
Scott Dillingham:Right? Yeah. So if you have weird things, weird colors, like clean it up. Right? Because they could have taken that down and put it in storage or something.
Scott Dillingham:Right?
Nick Messina:And that just comes back to what Cas was saying. Like, we we love uniqueness, but when it comes to selling the property, you want people to be able to envision what what they're thinking. Right? Yep.
Kass Dipasquale:I do have a quick question for Nick, though, because I've I've heard this before. So you were talking about a hot pink paint, and and I'm talking about lime green. And while to live in it, no, you don't really want that. So there's a couple things here. I hear that when people buy a house, they really won't repaint.
Kass Dipasquale:So they walk in. They're not gonna. If it's already neutral, more than likely, they're not gonna paint for another 3 to 5 years. But then I've heard on the flip side that if a buyer is going to all of these houses, that it's good to stand out and not have everything super neutral. So maybe there is a random basement bathroom that is hot pink or lime green so that they're when they've looked at 15 houses in a day, they're thinking, oh, what about that one that had the crazy hot pink
Nick Messina:Yeah.
Kass Dipasquale:Bedroom and it stands out? So do you think that that's a good thing or a bad thing?
Nick Messina:I mean, like, you're you're definitely not wrong. I can see the point where it's, like, out of sight, out of mind. Right? So if you have something unique that stands out, you're gonna be in mind and people are gonna be constantly thinking about that property. Right?
Nick Messina:At the same time, I think it really boils down to whether you're looking to move in from an investment standpoint to flip the house or if you're purchasing it to move in with the family. Okay. If you're on the family side, I would say you are right. They typically don't paint over it right away. If it's an investment standpoint, typically, they do.
Nick Messina:Okay. But I definitely see the point where you stand out a little bit. You are in the mind of, you know, the traffic that comes through. Whether that's a good or bad thing, I guess that really depends on the individual.
Kass Dipasquale:Okay.
Scott Dillingham:And what we will be doing after this, you can go to our merch store that we're gonna open up right away. What what we're gonna do is we're gonna have 20 feet tall cashes. Okay? So it'll go up the wall and onto the ceiling. So if you wanna make your house look unique
Kass Dipasquale:Oh my gosh. Like a custom vinyl sticker.
Scott Dillingham:I am
Nick Messina:so up for this.
Scott Dillingham:Yes. You can get the custom vinyl sticker on our on our merch sites.
Nick Messina:And it's better than wallpaper. Yeah.
Scott Dillingham:And then nobody will forget your house and it will help it to sell. So that's perfect.
Kass Dipasquale:There are no guarantees.
Scott Dillingham:Yeah. Yeah. No warranties. Yeah. Install at your own risk.
Scott Dillingham:But no, that's that's awesome. So okay. So I know we're gonna wrap it up here just because we we like to keep these shorts so someone can listen to it on their commute to work or whatever, but, any other tips or final thoughts to, you know, an an investor or maybe even a homeowner who might be listening to this that wants to really get into renovations, or they're local, right, and they wanna tap into using you guys. Give your tips and then give how they can get in touch with you.
Nick Messina:I would really say it's and I think I can speak for all of us on this front. It's so important to allocate not only your money but your time when it comes to, fixing up a property. It's super important to consult professionals like myself and Cas when it comes to these kind of things. You don't wanna be wasting your time, wasting your money on improvements that are not gonna the investment and are ultimately not going to bring in the traffic you're looking for. So I think I can't stress that enough.
Nick Messina:You have amazing people like the 2 of us. Definitely, use the resources at your disposal. People like the 2 of us, definitely, use the resources at your disposal.
Scott Dillingham:Yep. And just to wrap up your thought here, Nick, so how do people reach out to you if they're looking in Windsor Essex County and they want a realtor that specializes in, you know, knowing the value of a good renovation?
Nick Messina:Yeah. So I I'm I'm actually a very proud member of Team Goran REMAX Care. You can reach out to me directly. My number is 226-782-4552 or any of the other amazing, amazing agents, excuse me, at the office. 519-979-9949.
Nick Messina:And, also, we work really closely with Cass. So, I mean, definitely reach out to her, and then I'll pass that over to you.
Kass Dipasquale:So, you had asked a a question, though. What was your last question?
Scott Dillingham:Just if you had final tips and then how people get in touch with you.
Kass Dipasquale:It so something I had said on the event that we did in the hub anyway was to build your team. So that's one of the big things. Having the vision and then building the team who knows what your overall goal is. That's for sure my my one biggest tip. And you can find me on Instagram, kass design Studio, k a s s, Design Studio.
Kass Dipasquale:And, yes, you can call me too. 226-8812-194.
Nick Messina:But
Kass Dipasquale:But you can find me at Lens City all over, you know, talking to the agents and things like that. The last thing I wanna say about building your team is a quick little story about someone who thought they were gonna cut out the electrician, and they wired the whole house and did it wrong. Mhmm. Right? And we had, you know, got into just the do's and don'ts, and it is don't think that you can do something for cheaper.
Kass Dipasquale:That's where building your team knowing that they've got your your end goal in mind, which is, hey. This is a flip. This is a rental. We're selling this, and just having everyone on the same page is super important.
Scott Dillingham:No. That's perfect. A quick final update before we go. Actually, the merch store sold out of cast stickers. It already sold.
Scott Dillingham:So next, we'll be featuring Nick as well. Okay? So that'll be on there. We'll put it on the They're on
Kass Dipasquale:presale right now.
Scott Dillingham:Oh, okay. But thanks for listening, guys. We'll we'll see you next time.
Nick Messina:See you.
Kass Dipasquale:Thanks for having us.
Scott Dillingham:Cool.
Nick Messina:Alright.
Scott Dillingham:We did. We should have opened a merch store
Nick Messina:just for fun.