Erin Liu: 00:21

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Wisdom Lifestyle Money Show, and it's here for its mortgage professional. Erin Liu here again, and today, I'm your host. And I'm here where we dive deep into real estate and investing. And as a mortgage agent, as you know, I've been working with many investors to help them get their financing query.

Erin Liu: 00:42

And today, we are privileged to have Victoria Clony, a seasoned real estate expert with nearly 20 years of diverse investing experience, and from preconstruction to multifamily properties, short and meter rentals, and even venturing into lined developments recently. Her journey has been nothing short of marketable. And with the 22 years career in the Canadian Armed Forces, her discipline leadership greatly influenced her strategic strategy approach to real estate, and it's a pleasure to have her share her wealth and knowledge with us today. Welcome, Victoria.

Victoria Cloney: 01:25

Thank you, Erin. That's lovely. And I have to first start off saying, I absolutely love the name of your podcast. Wisdom is one of our, you know, main pillars of our company, and I just think it's so important. And so the fact and wealth, actually.

Victoria Cloney: 01:40

So we're very much aligned already.

Erin Liu: 01:43

Awesome. Perfect. So as euro, I would like to know, could you share your journey in risk to invest in particular, how your military background has influenced your approach to risk investing? Because I don't have many friends that I know who are in the military. That's really cool for me.

Victoria Cloney: 02:03

Yeah. It's it's a huge, influence for me for how I got started investing. I always explain it was unintentional at the beginning. When I purchased my first property, I was about 19 years old. And so people can do the math if they heard the intro about, almost 20 years experience.

Erin Liu: 02:22

Wow. That's super specific.

Victoria Cloney: 02:24

I was surrounded by, you know, people that were quite a bit older than me. And so for me, it just was a natural thing to purchase a property right away. It happened to be pre construction. And so as a 19 year old, I'm going through picking out the flooring, picking out the cupboards, whatever the selection that the contractors were making available. Within a year, I watched the market.

Victoria Cloney: 02:47

So I started to get a little bit savvy right away off the hop. I watched the market. I saw these properties starting to list for much higher than I purchased it for and decided to sell it. And so I sold it, made a profit, and then moved into another preconstruction, but it was an actual larger house. So I was working now with packages, and I'm just taking it a next level further.

Victoria Cloney: 03:12

And from there, I purchased another home. But at this point so this is again where the military influence came in. I was posted to the US very shortly, like, maybe 2 or 3 months after purchasing this property. So instead of selling it, I decided to rent it out because I would have lost quite a bit of money. And that's really where my journey started as a landlord, and that was around 2,006.

Victoria Cloney: 03:38

From there, coming back from the US, I intended to move back into the house that I had bought, but the family was there, and I didn't have the heart to ask them to leave. I was, you know, single female, and I had saved up enough money to buy a condo so that's when I started to accumulate, you know, multiple properties. I had met my husband as well, convinced him to rent out his condo, and we, you know, kind of came together and and really a decade went by really quickly and decided to sell everything at that time. Because when I talk about not being intentional, I really meant it. It really felt like it was more of out of being resourceful, out of just, like, needing to make sure that we weren't losing money.

Erin Liu: 04:24

Mhmm.

Victoria Cloney: 04:26

I resented being a landlord. I didn't enjoy getting phone calls from tenants. I didn't know what I was doing. I wasn't invested in learning how to properly maintain a house or the rules. I didn't have the mindset of an investor, so I didn't wanna pay for property management.

Victoria Cloney: 04:42

I didn't understand refinancing, so I wasn't maximizing my capital. And when we finally decide to sell everything and we see the money, the funds that we earned and that we, you know, had achieved over a decade of owning multiple properties, that's when the light bulb moment went off for me. And I was just like, we gotta actually put this right back in the market, and we gotta keep going with this. Except for this time around, I'm gonna figure out what I'm doing. And that was a huge

Erin Liu: 05:14

So at that time, you just realized you need to do something with those money.

Victoria Cloney: 05:19

I Okay. Yeah. Get serious about investing because, originally, I was never serious about what I was doing. I was just doing it out of necessity and resenting it throughout that time. So I really like, today, I'm much more involved in following what aligns and what I'm passionate about.

Victoria Cloney: 05:38

I was not doing that back then, so I was not maximizing my returns. I was not enjoying what I was doing, and I was out on a lot of opportunities.

Erin Liu: 05:47

Wow. And, I really want to know, like, how like, where the sense or how did you realize to start doing that even though when you were at early 20? Because I start realizing I should do that when I was 26. I wish I could be early. Right?

Erin Liu: 06:05

And, like, how come? Like, how do you because we were still at school. Right? We just get into the university, college, and how where is that from when you

Victoria Cloney: 06:15

Very it's funny. It's like I look back, and I think there's a lot of being in the right place at the right time situation, but also not to take away from the decisions that I made at a young age and really not having a lot of influence to make these decisions, but leaning into the risk and the fear. I've never been one to shy away from things that scare me. And so I graduated high school when I was 18. I joined the military about 2 weeks later.

Victoria Cloney: 06:48

It was really 4 days after my 18th birthday, and then I was off to basic training, and I was gone. And so it was just like one thing after another. But when I moved to Virginia, that was where I went in the US Mhmm. Renting out that property was out of resourcefulness because at the time interest rates were high. It was much like what we're at right now, the market.

Victoria Cloney: 07:12

And so selling a property was not in my best interest, and I had enough awareness to understand that part of it. And I don't even know. I look back right now, and I'm just, like, so proud of that girl because there was no access to we social media didn't exist. There was no access to this type of podcast that I didn't even know to look into it, really. I was very ignorant throughout that time.

Victoria Cloney: 07:40

So I'm happy the direction that I went, but hindsight's always 2020. I mean, if I only knew then what I know now, but I'm sure a lot of us could say that.

Erin Liu: 07:50

Wow. That's really impressive. So sometimes just to go for it. Don't You have to ladies.

Victoria Cloney: 07:57

Yeah. You really you have to take responsibility for your situation, and that's what I was doing at the time. I would weigh in. Do I rent or do I buy? And the people that were around me were buying properties because they were adults.

Victoria Cloney: 08:12

Like, they were grown ups because they were military, and I was quite young to be starting at 18. So my network were older members. And for them, they had families and they were buying properties. So for me, it felt natural purchase for the first time. And I remember my lawyer, and even to this day, I am the youngest client that he's ever had to purchase a home with.

Victoria Cloney: 08:39

Isn't that crazy? Oh,

Erin Liu: 08:40

crazy. And it's back in, like, 20 years ago already. Yeah. Oh my god. It's I'm just so impressed, like, how you determine it.

Erin Liu: 08:51

And at that young age, you know, the most of kids are still, you know Yeah. Yeah. Still feeling lost, right, in their life and no doesn't have the goal. Like, I was like that when I was at early twenties. So amazing.

Victoria Cloney: 09:07

I think there was some factors involved. Like, my parents had they had basically sold their house, and they were moving far away. And so I was in the stage of my life where I didn't have a backup plan, and so I was the only one responsible to make sure that I was taken care of. And that, you know, once you that safety net goes away, you gotta figure it out. It's sink or swim, and I'm a swimmer every time, always.

Erin Liu: 09:36

Nice. Amazing. Yeah. And I saw your strong, beautiful portfolio, and you have had experience in various restate sectors, like a preconstruction, rental, land development, and more. Like, how do these diverse experience shape your investment strategy?

Erin Liu: 09:54

And do you have a preferred niche?

Victoria Cloney: 09:58

You know, my preferred niche is starting to turn into that just the alignment and the values. I don't recommend my strategy to most because it is a it's a lot of different types of assets because right now even I have a waterfront motel and now I'm starting to develop tiny home communities and so they are very diverse assets. I do being, diverse. I like having that diversification with my portfolio, especially when the market goes up and down. It's you're not all your eggs are in 1 basket.

Victoria Cloney: 10:33

But this is my personality type. So my personality is where I enjoy the the I've always been that way. So I like to build on the skills that I develop, and then I take those skills and I transfer them into what I'm doing, and I feel very confident to do that. I often will tell, you know, any of my students or anybody that I'm talking to that you should stay in a one particular asset class because you'll start to get very knowledgeable and experienced in that area. But, for me, it allows me to be you know, have knowledge in all different areas and have good information and contacts all throughout.

Victoria Cloney: 11:16

So I've been enjoying it.

Erin Liu: 11:18

Great. That's amazing. And I because you mentioned you have a such a training for your students. Right? And I do see that you have a posting saying that, you know, like, action is how you implement it no matter how many classes you took or how many podcasts you listen, you have to action

Victoria Cloney: 11:39

on that. That's the key of success. Can't you can't do anything without taking action, and it doesn't matter how much knowledge you have. It if you're not ready or willing to take those steps forward, and it doesn't have to be massive action, I think that there's an unhealthy expectation that people have to be purchasing properties, you know, every single year and growing really fast. Just need to take, you know, a 4 step by step and break it down, And it won't feel as overwhelming, but too many people focus on the end result rather than one step at a time.

Erin Liu: 12:16

Right. Exactly. I I agree with you. And in your, like, extensive career, what's for some significant challenge that you face as a real estate investor and what lessons you learned from them?

Victoria Cloney: 12:29

Gosh. I mean, so a big challenge I faced when I was being posted from Nova Scotia to Ottawa, that was about two and a half years ago, and that was a really big change in my life, a, because it was in the middle of COVID. And on my own personal side, my personal residence, my mortgage tripled because of the property I had in Nova Scotia compared to what was available here in Ottawa and so I had to go into overdrive to make sure that I was getting enough cash flow that I was supplementing my income enough to support and maintain the lifestyle that I was used to in Nova Scotia. I also had a glamping retreat in Nova Scotia. It was called Bunkies on the Lake, and that was a very difficult decision.

Victoria Cloney: 13:21

We decided to sell it at the very last minute. We were on the fence the whole time, and, ultimately, that was a decision that I had to make that was from my head and not my heart because my heart loved these cottages. But my head had to take, you know, full control and say it is not the right move to keep these. And now looking back 2 years later, I'm so grateful that we did that. It really helped us.

Victoria Cloney: 13:52

We took those funds, of course, and we reinvested them somewhere else, and it's been great. I had to learn long distance investing. I had to start to just change my strategy quite a bit to start to invest here in the Ottawa market.

Erin Liu: 14:08

Wow. That's really cool. And I do believe, like, sometimes it is hard. We're struggling to make decision in the changing environment, right, or the markets. And you do have to have the strong determination in your personality to be able to do that.

Erin Liu: 14:27

Yeah.

Victoria Cloney: 14:28

It's where I thrive. It's Is that from your military experience? I'm sure it's a combination. I'm sure if I look back to even being a child, I have been in situations that have been challenging, and and I've always maintained this type of personality. And the the military certainly enhanced it for me.

Victoria Cloney: 14:50

And then, real estate has also just taken it to the next level. And so it has become a little bit of my identity, and I enjoy a challenge.

Erin Liu: 15:01

Awesome. That's amazing. And I know you're also I know you have too many roles. That's amazing. And you're also organizational psychology specialist.

Erin Liu: 15:12

Right? And how has your understanding of the human behavior and organizational dynamics influence your approach towards the investments and especially in terms of, like, tenants relations, relations, property management, management, or negotiation strategies?

Victoria Cloney: 15:31

Oh, it's been, a game changer for me. It I really think real estate is more about people than it is properties. And when you're able to connect with people, if you're able to read people, understand people, and communicate well, then, you can get pretty far in this game. So for me, it does feel like a little bit of an unfair advantage to have this knowledge, and I certainly take advantage of it every single day.

Erin Liu: 15:59

Wow. That's amazing. And, also, I know you have been working on the land development for the tiny home community. So what's motivated you to enter the world of land development, and how does this differ from your previous, you know, venture and any specific insights you would like to share?

Victoria Cloney: 16:21

Hi. So I have 2 land development type, projects that I'm working on. So one is not tiny homes. It's an 18 unit in Orleans, Ottawa. And I've actually partnered with land developers so that I can start to learn that process.

Victoria Cloney: 16:38

And my role has really been on the investor relations side of it, so the capital raising and then making sure that that the communication piece has been taken care of. But for me, that's a great fit because this is an area that now I'm getting into and I'm very interested in. When it comes to the tiny homes, it's wonderful because we're not building anything. We're manufacturing these homes, but that will be done with our company. And we are going to be developing a entire community, and so we've acquired a mobile home park because from the bylaws, you can put tiny homes in a mobile home park.

Victoria Cloney: 17:16

And so we have partnered with the owner of this mobile home park, and it's gonna be done in 2 phased approach development. The first phase is where we will have lots that are already serviced ready to go. Tiny homes will go on them, And then we have another, section where a a 100 more tiny homes will be placed in the next 2 years for an entire village.

Erin Liu: 17:42

Oh my god. I love it. We Wow. I'm so excited for it. And do you mind if I ask?

Erin Liu: 17:48

Because I know the mobile part home. Right? That then some of the people, like, who are retired, they sold their house. They'd pick that. So is there any difference between the mobile home compared with the tiny home that you're building?

Victoria Cloney: 18:03

The tie the difference will be I mean, the tiny homes on wheels, but even just the way that they're manufactured, they're built for Canadian winters so they are insulated, they're CSA approved, they've got, loft in them and they're smaller, but and they're just very the style is there. They're just a really great option now from a mobile home. They can be moved. That is another beauty of it for the tiny homes. We've also just got approval for our specific tiny home to be to fall under the bylaws of the coach home here in Ottawa.

Victoria Cloney: 18:43

So that has been big step forward as well. So we've got these 2 avenues now for these tiny homes. And you asked me what the draw for me was and it really is from that feel good side of investing where I know that people are seeing this as a solution to their problems, and a lot of people need that right now.

Erin Liu: 19:05

Exactly. And it is must be more affordable, like,

Victoria Cloney: 19:10

compared with the housing market. And you might appreciate it from a broker side is that the financing isn't necessarily you don't have to go through to get a mortgage. You can go through financing similar to, like, a vehicle or an RV. Oh,

Erin Liu: 19:27

it's just like a regular loan.

Victoria Cloney: 19:29

That's right. They have a

Erin Liu: 19:32

That's amazing. And do you mind if you can share what's the price range you really took at such a tiny home? And is it the space because the client doesn't own the land. Right?

Victoria Cloney: 19:46

If they go in the mobile home so we are partnered with a mobile home, like, 2, 3 minutes outside of Perth, and so that's about 40 minutes from Ottawa. It's in a mobile home park called Tay Ridge. And if you are there, then you would be leasing the land. So you would purchase the tiny home. We're selling them for a $175,000.

Victoria Cloney: 20:07

They are top of the line with the manufacturing. This is and I'll say I'll drop Bruce Firestone's name. He is championing these tiny homes and has expressed that this is the best model that he's ever seen. And so we are selling those for 175, and then the land lease option would be 600 per month. And so you would lease the land, so you would pay that.

Victoria Cloney: 20:33

It's like a kinda like a condo, an HOA type

Erin Liu: 20:37

maintenance fee. Yeah.

Victoria Cloney: 20:40

Exactly. And if you were to purchase a tiny home, you could put it on your property, and then, of course, you own the land and the home. So it just depends on where you're placing the home.

Erin Liu: 20:51

Mhmm. Wow. That's amazing. A 175,000, and you can own a house. Your dream home over there.

Victoria Cloney: 20:58

A house, and you can you don't have to qualify for mortgage financing. And, we're actually right now, we're in works with other, organizations from a financing perspective to make it even easier. And so this is really exciting.

Erin Liu: 21:14

Yeah. That's so exciting. And I believe more and more finance same company will be, you know, open the door for those type of, like, financing and it will make it easier. Yeah. And Cool.

Erin Liu: 21:26

Yeah.

Victoria Cloney: 21:26

That's what we're seeing right now.

Erin Liu: 21:28

Right. And are you only allow the homeowner to buy that where you are allowed the investor to buy that and rent it out as well?

Victoria Cloney: 21:38

I love that question. And because that's the the versatility of them is that, no, you can anybody can buy one. So these are amazing products for investors because the return on investment, you can capture that within, like, a very short amount of time. So tiny homes are great for buyers, for investors. They're great for, you know, millennials.

Victoria Cloney: 22:02

They're great for the elderly. They're really just you can create pockets of communities of like minded individuals really anywhere. It's amazing.

Erin Liu: 22:14

Wow. Great. And yearly, how much would be the rental, like, per tiny home? Well, that

Victoria Cloney: 22:22

Yeah. The up to the investor, of course. So they would I would be encouraging the investor to run the numbers, of course, price it out from like a market value standpoint, maybe like what would a 1 bedroom cost somebody in that area, make sure that, any of the fees are being covered so if you are leasing the land. For example, an investor could purchase a tiny home and place it in the mobile home park depending on what their financing structure looks like because when you're doing the financing through, say, Canadian financing, then you get different rates. So you wanna make sure that your monthly payments are being covered as well as the land lease.

Victoria Cloney: 23:04

Not that the current is, know, it's a pretty it's a pretty good opportunity.

Erin Liu: 23:09

Sure. I'm so excited about that. I feel like this could be a great option, you know, for the investors even though for the, you know, new investor who wants to start with your journey. And for individuals looking to start their journey in risk investing, like, what advice would you offer based on your years of experience?

Victoria Cloney: 23:32

I would I advise to identify the type of asset that fits your lifestyle and your financial goals right away because just because you hear somebody doing tiny homes or a motel or multifamily or short term rentals, it doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna be the right fit for you, the individual, and you have to understand what the requirements would be, how much effort needs to be in place to stabilize that property, to maintain that property. And it's once you do a little bit of research, you can then start to develop that. Of course, working with a coach is gonna get you from a to z that much quicker. It's certainly not a requirement. I, you know, I'm proof of that.

Victoria Cloney: 24:22

I've been able to maneuver it while it took me a lot longer than had I had somebody that said, you know, Victoria, do this and this, and I probably would have done that. But really honing in on the type of asset that you want, getting to know that very well in the market that is best suited for and you're comfortable with, And one step at a time, learning how to run the numbers, learning how to find a good deal, identify a good deal, learning how to negotiate, build a team. You know, it's all very step by step and one thing at a time. It can feel overwhelming to begin with, but we teach. So I have a a methodology that I like to use, and it's called profit.

Victoria Cloney: 25:07

And so that's what it is. It's like a personal assessment. Know yourself. Understand what type of asset fits you best, the market, what your goals are, know how to run your numbers, know how to make an offer, what conditions you should put in, where to find properties, negotiate, financing, how to actually finance it, where do you wanna go, mortgage broker, straight to a bank, and then build your team. And so if you can follow those steps, you're set up in a pretty good space to get started.

Erin Liu: 25:40

Perfect. Awesome. That's amazing. And thank you so much. I have learned a lot.

Erin Liu: 25:44

It's really valuable and great suggestion and advice. And thank you so much, Victoria, for sharing your, you know, invaluable insight and experience in the world of real estate. And, like I said, your journey from military, which I'm so impressed to and to diverse investment is truly inspiring me. And to our listeners, I hope you found today's discussion as enriching as I did. And remember, success in real estate often, you know, stem from a combination of knowledge, strategy, and adaptability.

Erin Liu: 26:18

And stay tuned for more insightful episodes and until next time, and happy investing. Thank you so much again, Victoria, for coming here today.

Victoria Cloney: 26:28

Thank you for having me, Erin.