From Basement Bungalows to Multifamily Ventures With Paul Mcallister & Ken Beckendam
Welcome to the, Wisdom Lifestyle Money Show. My name is Paul McAllister. I'm a real estate investor myself, specifically focusing on BRRRR strategy multifamilies. I do a lot of joint ventures. I'm also an investor focused mortgage agent at Lend City Mortgages.
Paul McAllister:We do US lending for Canadians, and we also do Canadians in Canada against across all provinces as well. I have an engineering background myself. I also have a background in mega construction across Canada, both on the private side and the government side. And I'm very excited to have a special guest here. His name is Ken And you can help me with that.
Paul McAllister:I'm basically solo dad, real estate investor, contractor, developer, radio host. I'm sure there's so much more legal suites. But Ken, welcome to the show. Thanks for taking the time. And, yeah, just give your introduction of who you are, and then we'll get into it.
Ken Beckendam:Yeah. Great. It's great to be on the show, and I apologize in advance if my Internet connection is not super great. I do live out here on a farm out in the country. And, yeah, I've been investing since about 2010.
Ken Beckendam:And so many of our listeners, you know, I I was actually working a full time job. I was actually a landscape designer working for a landscape contractor at the time. And, working on designing out people's backyards with all the nice pools of water, falls and covered porches and barbecues and all of that kind of stuff. But my side hustle at the time was, you know, buying bungalows and converting basements into apartments and having student rental properties. And it was at it wasn't until 2018, so 8 years later, that I finally had enough kinda cash flow and income coming from my rental portfolio at the time.
Ken Beckendam:And at the time, I had about 5 properties to my name, and it was enough for me to kinda quit and be able to go into full time real estate investing. I was looking at my monthly cash flow from my rentals, and I was looking at my monthly paycheck, and I was getting more income from my rental properties. And so that was the trigger point for me to quit and go full time. And so I had an architectural design background, you know, and I got my design CAD skills through the through the landscape design industry. And because I was doing some basement apartments on my own, you know, I started offering that type of service to other clients.
Ken Beckendam:And I started going out to real estate networking events, you know, telling people what I'm doing. Sorry. One second. Telling people what I'm doing. And, yes.
Ken Beckendam:From there that I just started helping more and more people apply for permits and create basement apartments. And so this was, you know, 2018, 2019, 2020, 21, you know, and as we all know, you know, those types of, I guess, investment opportunities were skyrocketing. Everybody out there was doing basement apartments and converting houses, and, you know, municipalities, were updating zoning bylaws to make it easier and easier. And my company just grew, and we we grew exponentially. I went from basically myself, only one designer, to basically we had 4 at the peak.
Ken Beckendam:We have 14 designers designing across Southern Ontario doing about a 140, a 150 conversion projects a year. And so this is at the peak, basically, 2021. So when
Paul McAllister:when you say what does your company so you design them. You design the legal suites. And what else do you do? Are you doing the construction of them, managing construction? Because you're throughout Southwestern Ontario.
Paul McAllister:So how do you how involved, I guess, do you get, or not get?
Ken Beckendam:Yes. No. We primarily do a lot of architectural design work only, the Permian work only. But for those clients that are in, like, the Greater Hamilton, Brantford area, we also have a construction company that was doing a lot of construction work. Now we were doing, like, 140, 150 permit applications, conversion projects, and then probably 20, 25 of those, we were, doing the construction ourselves and managing the construction in it.
Ken Beckendam:So I set up a construction company to kinda deal with that. And things were wild. Things were crazy. We were growing fast. You know, hiring a lot of employees, designers.
Ken Beckendam:And I know with that, you know, comes a lot of complexity. You know, comes a lot of, management to people, you know, for good or worse. You know? Sometimes it's not always great to to scale up, especially scaling up quickly. There's a lot of lessons that were learned through that period of time.
Ken Beckendam:So now coming into 2022, 2023, you know, the numbers really didn't make sense for a lot of people doing bungalow conversions anymore. You know, we had kinda, like, a 2 unit house wasn't quite cash flowing anymore, especially at the higher price points of houses. And, you know, we saw a lot of our clients switching into triplexes, 4 plexes, getting into 8 unit building conversions, 10, 12 unit building conversions. And so naturally, our company, we shifted and we started helping clients with some of these small building conversions. And so that's what we're doing a lot of these days is, like, building conversions.
Ken Beckendam:So it could be commercial, vacant commercial to residential building conversions. You know, we're seeing great opportunity in that space. You know? I'm an investor as well, so I'm also out there actively buying properties and and converting properties and buildings myself. And I know our team know what's nice about the vacant buildings is, you know, we're not dealing with tenants.
Ken Beckendam:We're not dealing with existing tenants. Right? Sometimes when people go in and they buy an existing, you know, whatever, 10, 12 unit building, they're inheriting a lot of tenants. Right? And they have to go through, like, a renovation process and try and keep people out in order to renovate or cash for keys and, you know, yes.
Ken Beckendam:There can be no. They can be successful in that. But it's a lot of headache that comes with that as well. Yeah. Sure they're Yeah.
Ken Beckendam:And what's nice about the vacant buildings is that, you know, you can basically get going right away. You know, you apply for your building permits, and and you get going right away and not have to worry about existing occupants. So that's kind of what we do a lot of these days.
Paul McAllister:Yeah. I think you're in a sweet spot. I think where there's a lot of office space must be being converted to residential and commercial spaces being converted to residential. It's like the especially in the GTA. So is a lot of those conversions happening in like that greater Hamilton or like, in the area that you're actually located?
Paul McAllister:Or do you see that throughout Southwestern Ontario?
Ken Beckendam:What we're seeing in many different municipalities, like, lots of cities have their older parts of the city or where they have a surplus of of vacant commercial, properties. You know, it could be boarded up vacant commercial on the ground floor, or maybe there's a couple of residential units up above. They're in all sorts of cities. And, yes, we do a lot of work in the Hamilton area in particular just because, you know, that particular city does have a lot of these types of units. But, you know, we're seeing a lot of projects in some of the small towns like Galahai, Simcoe, Norfolk County, Saint Thomas, you know, Brantford.
Ken Beckendam:Just lots of little kind of smaller, little, you know, municipalities that have kind of these older downtown corridors and, you know, lots of these kind of, like, older commercial buildings. It's perfect.
Paul McAllister:Are you finding your clients are from those places, or is it investors all over? You know? Do you what is your typical client, I guess? Like, how are you getting your, yeah, your business? Or where do you see, like, a trend in where your business comes from?
Ken Beckendam:No. We're very active on social media. I know we put out a lot of content on Instagram and, Facebook and YouTube. And, you know, our our client base are other real estate investors. And, you know, where are real estate investors hanging out?
Ken Beckendam:They're hanging out online. No. They they hang out at the different networking events. And so we no. We're there.
Ken Beckendam:We're actively going out there and and networking in the community to get our name out there and, you know, also educate people on, you know, the different opportunities that are right there in front of them now, especially with all the changes the the province has made to provincial policy and municipalities have made with zoning bylaw changes, you know, to allow for this further density of of housing needs. And, you know, we get clients from all over Ontario. And, you know, they're going all over Ontario, basically, looking for opportunity. Right? And we're finding that some of these smaller towns, it's, you know, not as much competition.
Ken Beckendam:Price points are lower are are lower. Oftentimes, it's a little bit easier to work in these municipalities because there's less people, you know, in the building departments, in the planning departments, and it can be, you know, less red tape, if you will, to kinda get a permit approved in some of these smaller towns. And, yeah, it's you know what? There's opportunity everywhere out there for investors, and and, yes, you know, interest rates are high right now, but but this means you have to be more creative with, what you do and creatively creating deals.
Paul McAllister:Yeah. I think people always say it's high. It's high, but being creative will actually pay off in the end when those interest rates do come down. Right? You are not married to an interest rate.
Paul McAllister:They will come down sooner or later, and I think it's really forced people to get more out of properties than ever before. One thing I I wanna say just for I've been looking at your social media. You provide for I will put it in it will be in the description. But, yeah, a lot of value for investors, a lot of good information about secondary dwellings. And I know you you kinda think a lot like me, and that's why I was really excited.
Paul McAllister:I I like to use any reason outside of Windsor, Ontario. It's called Amesburg, Ontario. And I actually have a relationship with the basically all of the town members because I'm always calling them asking about properties. I can literally go in there, sit down with them, and go through, you know, like, that's something I think that you don't get in a lot of municipalities. If I were to do that in Windsor, you know, it wouldn't happen.
Paul McAllister:But I can actually go and have a a question. I can sit down and get an answer. So I can appreciate what you're saying in terms of the small municipalities, easier to work for. Like, imagine that happening in any big city. It just you know, it doesn't happen.
Ken Beckendam:Yes. You know, the thing is, you know, the province and municipalities are making it much easier for us investors to to increase density. You know what? There's a lot of things that our governments do to make our lives miserable, you know, and increase costs on us and issues at the landlord tenant board and all these other matters. But on on one thing that they are doing, right, is that they are allowing for increased density.
Ken Beckendam:So what that means is that, you know, go out there and find the biggest house, the biggest building, on the biggest piece of land that you can afford because there's there's it's gonna be ripe for opportunity to, you know, make that single family home into maybe an 8plex. Okay, or to sever a lot and build, you know, 2 multi residential buildings. A lot of these municipalities, especially along the arterial roads or their main corridor roads, you know, they're they're they're creating these intensification corridors where they're really upping the density along these major roads. Try and find, you know, a a building or a big house or, you know, whatever it is on some of these, arterial roads and and collector roads, these intensification quarters because it's gonna be it's right for for for redevelopment, and it's getting much, much easier.
Paul McAllister:So then great question. I think for investors, I I'm asking this really question myself. So if I find a property, and I'm like, oh, this has a lot of potential, at that point, is that when I could would I be contacting your company? Would I be contacting you? Like, when at what point am I reaching out to contact you for your services?
Ken Beckendam:Yeah. No. It happens a lot. We get a lot of, you know, real estate investors, realtors who will you know, they they come across a good potential property that they come across on realtor.ca or whoever wholesale list or or however comes to them. And then they say, hey, Ken.
Ken Beckendam:You know, we got this property. What do you think we can do with it? Here's what we're thinking, but can you confirm that for us or what have you? And so then, yeah, I look into the zoning bylaw. We look into the permitted uses.
Ken Beckendam:We figure out what's currently permitted under the the bylaws for density. And if they do allow that density, what are some other considerations that we have to be aware of such as parking, you know, lot coverage, landscape area, amenity space, bicycle parking, whatever it may be. And, you know, try and determine, you know, can we do this all as of right under the zoning bylaw, or is it gonna trigger a minor variance? Or further, is it gonna trigger, like, a zoning by law amendment or a rezoning of the land? You know, trying to inform our investors kinda what are they up against.
Ken Beckendam:You know, is this is this gonna be a relatively easy conversion project, from an approvals perspective, or are there some hoops that we have to jump through, so that they can make an, you know, informed decision about purchasing the building? And, you know, it's not just it's not just the zoning by law or the, you know, the planning side of the approvals that we have to be concerned about. It's also, you know, does the house or the building, can we comply with minimum building code requirements for the amount of units that we wanna do? Because, you know, so many smaller investors, though, will they might be exposed to doing a basement apartment or a 2 unit house conversion. And there's a big difference in the building code between what we define as a house, which is 2 units or less, and what we define as a building, which is 3 units or more.
Ken Beckendam:And there's there there are some major key differences on building code between the two different types of structures. You know? Like ceiling like, minimum ceiling heights is is a big one. Means of egress is a big one. Fire separation.
Ken Beckendam:Right? And, you know, just because the zoning may permit a triplex, a 4plex, an 8plex, that doesn't necessarily mean that the building that we're looking at can actually comply with building code. So it it's so this is how our company gets involved, basically helping the client with the feasibility study to to see if this is gonna be a feasible project or not.
Paul McAllister:Yeah. So that's so if I were I know it would obviously, this is a range of an answer, but what would that cost? So if I have a property, say it's a yeah. I guess it depends on the size, the level of effort, but what kind of typical cost would it be for a feasibility study? If I have a potential property, I wanna contact you guys.
Paul McAllister:Like, how yeah. What would I expect? Is that, like, an assessment in case by case, or do you have a standard or a typical kind of
Ken Beckendam:Yeah. So when people reach out to us, you know, we encourage them to book a consultation. And it's a free 30 minute consultation. We we do it on phone or on Zoom. And during that consultation, we're basically doing a high level look at the property.
Ken Beckendam:Okay? We're looking into the zoning by law. Like, you know, visually, we're we're looking at the building online, you know, via Google Maps, Google Street View, to kinda get a sense for the building. And then we discuss, you know, what does the client want to do. You know, are we talking just a simple basement apartment, like a 2 unit conversion?
Ken Beckendam:Are they talking about trying to convert this place into, you know, 3, 4, 6, 8, 10 units? And then we, you know, we let them know and say, hey. Look. Here's as per the zoning by law, here's what we're permitted to do. It's telling us here in the by law that we need, you know, x amount of parking spaces per unit.
Ken Beckendam:Looking at your lot area, it doesn't look like we're gonna we can achieve that parking within the lot boundaries. Therefore, you know, this might trigger a minor variance to get the amount of units that you want. And, you know, we kinda discuss what they're up against. And sometimes, you know, it could be very easy, straightforward, and we can do everything as of right. No.
Ken Beckendam:Sometimes, you know, we do need further planning approvals. And then after that and that's a free consultation. 30 minutes, you know, we can very quickly determine what we need, to do. And then from there, I send them a fee estimate to actually complete the work, the architectural drawings, mechanical, structural, you know, if we need a minor variance, committee of adjustment, you know, if we need to do a zoning bylaw amendment, like a rezoning, pre consultations, you know, so on and so forth, whatever it's gonna take.
Paul McAllister:I feel like I have a project I could flip on the screen right now. I wanna get your input on. But, yeah, I'll I'll be booking my consultation with you. But, yeah, that makes a lot of sense and it it sounds like a really good service and I guess it will lead That free consultation leads to kind of some comfort deal working with you, and then it leads to business. It makes a lot of sense.
Paul McAllister:One other thing, I guess because right now, in my mind, I am a tiny house that I'd like I have a a duplex. It has a garage, and I wanna put a tiny house behind it. So my question to you would be like, what is the biggest I can go? What is the most I can get? So it feels like it would fit into that realm of, a free consultation.
Ken Beckendam:Yeah. Exactly. And, you know, again, for the most part, we can there's so much that we can just do online to figure out, you know, if we if the project is gonna be feasible or not without even having to make a visit to the property. You know? The only reason you'd have to make a site visit prior to, you know, starting any sort of technical design work is really to maybe determine a building code, issue, a building code, a ceiling height dimension or something or or some sort of thing where we have to take a physical dimension in order to kinda confirm something.
Ken Beckendam:You know, just from a high level perspective to figure out whether or not it's gonna be allowed or not, that can all be done online, which is which is great.
Paul McAllister:Yeah. I agree. That's one of the reasons I like kind of working in in my area is I could I have the aerial shots that the they take every year, and you can actually it's Geocortex. You can flip through and see what the property will look like for the last 20 years. They take it once a year, and you can actually measure from the sky, and you can, that's how you can really easily see your lot coverage and those types of things.
Paul McAllister:You know, it's not going to be the most accurate, but it's still pretty accurate, I find.
Ken Beckendam:Yeah. When we get into the larger vacant commercial building conversion projects, you know know yes. We look at the zoning bond. I make sure that, you know, like, a multiple dwelling, an apartment dwelling, it it's gonna be permitted. But in order to kinda figure out your unit count, you know, so let's say we're walking through a 14,000 square foot building, vacant commercial building.
Ken Beckendam:We're trying to understand, okay, how many dwelling units can we actually fit within this large, you know, vacant space. Then that's where it's really important to do a physical walk through of the building, to see how it's laid out, you know, where are the windows, how are we gonna get in and out of the building, like our means of egress. And because, you know, again, we we have to comply with minimum building code requirements for a dwelling unit. When you're doing a larger, you know, conversion project, you know, it's really vital to understand with accuracy what your actual unit count is gonna be in the build. Are we talking 10 units?
Ken Beckendam:Are we talking 15? Are we talking 18 units, 20? Whatever case may be. Because that directly goes back to the feasibility of the project, how many units, you know, ultimately, how much can you pay for the building. Because once we have our unit count, then we figure out our average rent per unit.
Ken Beckendam:You know, we can figure out what our expenses are gonna be, what our renovation expenses are gonna be, and basically figure out what our net operating income is gonna be for the building, and that ultimately will determine our purchase price. So it's more important on the larger commercial building conversions to do a physical walk through to basically get that unit count. Whereas on the smaller projects, like a bungalow conversion, a triplex, a 4plex, you know, other than maybe confirming a ceiling height dimension, you really don't need to do physical walk through.
Paul McAllister:Makes a lot of sense. I think you have I have a question there. So I know we talk about during COVID, I started again on this the legal suites. So in the minor municipality, they allow mother-in-law suite and then a secondary dwelling unit, you know, main unit, mother-in-law suite, secondary dwelling for the first one that I had done back in 2021. I converted the, the lower to a mother-in-law suite.
Paul McAllister:And then I the garage was a detached garage and converted into a legal dwelling unit or a secondary dwelling unit. I guess my question is from a from your perspective, is there any, I guess, advantages, disadvantages to mother-in-law suite? The word mother-in-law suite, I know is, to me, it's a gray a gray area, but maybe that's just my knowledge, but is there a big difference between the mother-in-law suite and the legal dwelling unit? Or is there is that the same thing? Or
Ken Beckendam:What what we're what you're getting to is, you know, how is the unit defined? What's the defined term for that unit? And every municipality calls them something slightly different. Okay? So most municipalities here in Ontario, it's like secondary dwelling unit, maybe an additional dwelling unit, maybe some accessory dwelling unit.
Ken Beckendam:Mother-in-law suite is not used anywhere in Ontario as a defined term. That's a term that realtors use when they list a property. You know, especially if they know it's not a legal apartment, they'll list it as an in law suite. And to me, like, when I see a listing and I read in law suite, to me, it's a red flag that, okay. This apartment may not be legal.
Ken Beckendam:Most likely, it's not a legal apartment. Because if it was a legal apartment, they would definitely state that it's a legal apartment. It's a secondary dwelling unit, you know, because there is value there. You know, you got to keep in mind, you know, on a on a single family home with a secondary dwelling unit, it's still being appraised off of clumps, right, comparables in the market. And, look, there's still lots of buyers out there who will buy a 2 unit house whether it's legal or not legal.
Ken Beckendam:But when we buy something that's a legal apartment or has a legal apartment in it, it's counted as legal income. And so it it definitely makes a difference on on your qualifying for that mortgage or let's say you're gonna come and do a refinance, you know, 6, 8, 10 months later. Know, it's really important to have that as legal income to qualify for the mortgage. Because if it's not a legal apartment, while your lender may only look at the house as a single family home, not as a 2 family home. And that will make a difference on on your qualifying.
Paul McAllister:Yeah. No. I see that for sure the legality really impacts your mortgage. I just feel you know, I say there's a gray zone because it's still a single family house even if you have a mother-in-law suite within it. So, like, it's not like they changed the zoning.
Paul McAllister:So how does somebody know or how, I guess, how does even the appraiser know if it's a truly illegal unit in that basement? Besides, obviously, if there's ceiling heights and stuff, they're gonna be able to tell. But if the ceiling height's there, how do they know? They can't see through the fireproofing. Are they going to look the building, like, how do they know that it's a legal mother-in-law suite in that basement?
Ken Beckendam:The only way to know is either, you know, the seller to give you a building permit proving that it was done legally, or you have to contact the city and get a zoning letter or a zoning compliance letter or a zoning certificate letter. Different cities call them different things, but it's basically a zoning verification report from the city confirming the existing permitted use as recognized by the city. And if the building permit was pulled to add that legal apartment, it would show up in the city record, and the city would come back and say, yes. This is a legal 2 family dwelling. You know?
Ken Beckendam:Or a legal single family home with a legal secondary dwelling unit. So this is why it's so important when you're buying a multiunit house is to do your own due diligence and to contact the city directly because don't rely on what a realtor says. Don't rely on what a seller says because oftentimes, they could be wrong. They they may not understand the existing use, the legal existing use of that property. And we see that in many cities where we have, like, tries, 4, 6 unit buildings.
Ken Beckendam:It's like a dog's breakfast of whether something was legal or not legal. And there's been many times where people have bought in what they think is a legal fourplex, but in fact, it's only a single family home. And now they have to go through this whole building permit to process to get it recognized. And so, yeah, it's part of doing proper due diligence on on a purchase.
Paul McAllister:Makes a lot of sense. And I can imagine going from a single family to a a 4plex is not the easiest of things. So you would be involved in under like, the whole process. Let's say I'm an investor, and I've I have bought that single family, and we're going to a 4. You'd be involved in the design, what we need to do in terms of building permit, and helping to work with the municipality, like, guiding them through that whole process?
Ken Beckendam:Yeah. So we do everything start to finish. Right? So we we start first with that zoning review, that free consultation, you know, figure out what you're up against. Then, you know, if we're gonna move forward, then, you know, I'll give you a fee estimate for the architectural, mechanical, structural design, including a building permit submission.
Ken Beckendam:So we we would do all the the technical work and all of the city work to get you ultimately that issued building permit. And then if you're in our local market here, which is, you know, we're based out of downtown Hamilton. So if you're in the greater Hamilton area or, you know, Brantford, Cambridge, you know, we would send you a fee estimate to do the construction from our construction company. And so we have we have the ability to do it start to finish. Like I said, we're servicing investors all across Ontario.
Ken Beckendam:So there's many markets where, you know, we just physically can't send our construction crews. As much as I would love to have a construction crew that's covering all of our Ontario, that's very challenging. Right? But from the designing, permitting, consulting side of the business, you know, we help people everywhere.
Paul McAllister:Yeah. I I think that's really valuable. Even if you were far away, you still have an idea of the cost to a certain degree or a rough order of magnitude. It really helps, I think, from a a remote kind of client is it adds value that you have that construction company as well where you are.
Ken Beckendam:Yeah. And there's lots of, you know, smaller towns, especially more remote northern communities where the MENA have a lot of local expertise or local experts who can really consult with them about a potential project. You know? We have investors that are you know, they're they live down here maybe in the south in Southern Ontario and the GTA, but they're investing in some of these, you know, communities that are much further away. And you may not know anybody who actually lives in those communities.
Ken Beckendam:This is where they reach out to us, and and we you know, we we can help them from here. They'll figure out what to do for a project that's, you know, 3, 4 hours away or something.
Paul McAllister:Makes sense. I think I can I'll shift a little bit away from my my personal questions on the, single family, but so I know that you're, you have an expertise it's land development. Like I know we talked about multifamily, but like for land development, does that go to say, I have a lot of investors have pea they always say, oh, I have a piece of land. It's 5 acres. I wanna know what I can do with it.
Paul McAllister:What is the highest and best use? Is that something that you also get involved in, or where's the line? Yeah.
Ken Beckendam:So increasingly, we're getting into more land use planning and land development work. Like myself personally, I'm getting into a lot of land development and developing townhouses, stacked townhouses, street townhouses, you know, small multi you know, apartment buildings and whatnot. And, you know, as I do more of that type of work personally, you know, I'm offering that consultation and that skill set to our investors as well in helping them with their kind of land development projects. And, you know, we have the capability to if somebody comes to us with, yeah, a vacant piece of land, be able to look into the official plan, into the secondary plans, look into provincial policies, and figure out, you know, what is the highest best use for that piece of land. There's a lot of land development projects, like in the zoning by law.
Ken Beckendam:That's fantastic. But there's so many land development projects where we we have to go for a rezoning or zoning by law amendment. And then this is where it's important to make sure that, you know, we're compliant with the official plan or any sort of secondary plans. And so it's it's just land use planning is is what it is. And with those types of projects, you know, involves pre consultations with the city.
Ken Beckendam:You know, there's lots of different consult other consultants that have to be involved in land development, you know, archaeological, environmental, could be traffic, parking, you know, arborists, you know, landscape architects, so on and so forth. But but it is a process. It's a step by step process that we go through. And, you know, my experience, it's not as difficult as people think it is. It's following a process.
Ken Beckendam:There's a step by step process that you walk through to redevelop, a piece of land into a much larger development. But it's all about working with the proper people and having a power team of consultants and planners and, you know, to help you develop and come up with the vision for that property.
Paul McAllister:Nice. I love that you say vision. I think vision is the most important part of honestly, vision and execution is the most important of real estate investing. I guess so. I think I have 3 projects in my head that I'd like to consult in some advice with you.
Paul McAllister:I'm gonna book some time, you know, the single family stuff, be adding the the additional, like the tiny house. And then I have a land development project. So I feel like maybe we could even make a share of that conversation. But it's really cool. I have a lot of investors asking these same types of questions, and it's really cool that they can reach out.
Paul McAllister:So I guess, what is the best way for you for them to reach out to you? What is the best way for me to reach out to you? Because I'd like to be the same.
Ken Beckendam:Yeah. So really, it's just, you know, booking a free consultation with me first. And you can book that through our website, legal second suites.com. You know, you can find me on Instagram or Facebook. I'm the only can be condemned in the world, so I'm pretty easy to find.
Ken Beckendam:And if you can somehow make your way to my website, that's where you can book this free consult. And then from there, we can talk about whatever project you have, big or small, and then see what it will take to actually make that happen and whether it's feasible or not.
Paul McAllister:Cool. So I'll have that stuff in the description below. Ken, I really appreciate you taking the time today to be on this podcast, and I look forward to talking with you for myself, and I hope we could get got some value for our listeners. So thank you very much.
Ken Beckendam:Yeah. Thank
Paul McAllister:you. Alright. Cheers.